minor errors

[OAL714 Jean-Louis Leborne]

Hello all,

I'm using OAV Acars since my very beginning with OAV. Congratulations for the last initial release !

I was recently Flying Concorde on the F1WT and the flight progress bar was not progressing at all, the bar was green all the time, from the very beginning to the end on most of my Concorde flights, despite correct block time/ETE provided.

The a/c position on the moving map is correct but the plotted flown red route is not.
From ACARS Flight Report YMML-YPPH Total Distance : 7878,3 nm !!

My last flight penalty messages:
-You exceeded the maximum speed of the Aircraft! (penalty point 0)
-You exceeded the maximum taxi speed of 25Knots at the arrival airport. (-100)

I'm 100% sure I did not exceed the max speed (250 kts below FL100/10.000'). The FSA report don't even mention it for the last flight YMML-YPPH ! BTW, in RW Concorde was often cleared above 250kts during the climb phase.

Concerning the taxi speed, it's not easy to keep it below 25kts even with throttles at full idle. Could it be possible to accept some kind of tolerance for Concorde ?

Last point : the OAV Acars financial report is really different compared to the FSA. Why 2 reports ? and why such big differences between them ? The ones that count for establishing the financial health of OAV are FSA reports. Correct ?

Thanks for taking into consideration

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

Dear Jean-Louis,

Thank you for your kind words.

I was recently Flying Concorde on the F1WT and the flight progress bar was not progressing at all, the bar was green all the time, from the very beginning to the end on most of my Concorde flights, despite correct block time/ETE provided.

The a/c position on the moving map is correct but the plotted flown red route is not.
From ACARS Flight Report YMML-YPPH Total Distance : 7878,3 nm !!

The developer will check that one..

My last flight penalty messages:
-You exceeded the maximum speed of the Aircraft! (penalty point 0)
-You exceeded the maximum taxi speed of 25Knots at the arrival airport. (-100)

You exceeded the maximum speed of the Aircraft! refers to overspeeding the aircraft duting cruise and not to exceeding 250kts under 10,000ft (actually the latter is not included at all as a penalty since it is not uncommon for aircraft to get no speed restrictions instructions when there is no traffic in the area). The data is read from FSUIPC, so if FSUIPC reads the appropriate flag at any time this message is displayed for information; thus 0 points penalty.

For the taxi speed for both taxi out and taxi in there is a tolerance up to 30kts. The panalty is applied only if your GS exceeds at any point 30kts.

Last point : the OAV Acars financial report is really different compared to the FSA. Why 2 reports ? and why such big differences between them ? The ones that count for establishing the financial health of OAV are FSA reports. Correct ?

First of all keep in mind that FSA uses a multiplier for the final figure of profit (or expense) for each flight. There is a complex financial model in OAV that is not visible at this moment, therefore money gained are used to purchase a/c, repaur them, clean them, cater them, fuel them, etc. We are in the process of making all these more visible to the pilots. Keep also in mind that the final financial report in the Dispatch Office is recalculated when the qc of each flight is performed by the Ops Manager, showing the correct figures.

Finally as per to why both FSA and OAV, as I mentioned in the past FSA is only there for marketing purposes and the primary function belongs always to the DO of OAV.

Bare with us for the distance issue..

[OAL714 Jean-Louis Leborne]

Dear Mike,

Thank you so much for your comment that clarifies most of my questions.

"You exceeded the maximum speed of the Aircraft! refers to overspeeding the aircraft during cruise"

As you know, on any supersonic flight, most of the time Concorde is in "cruise climb mode" - with ups and downs - trying, if possible, to reach FL600 as far as delta ISA is OK and the a/c weight is decreasing.

With "Max climb" mode engaged and ALT 60000' selected + AT1 primed, on the AFCS, the Mach number hardly goes above 2.02 except when, all of a sudden, temp is drastically changing . Is M2.02 above the a/c max speed ?

Thanks

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

Actually I believe it is more than that. Only if the IAS needle gets above the limit you get the Overspeed warning. Basically the limits are hard coded for each aircraft in FS. Therefore it is safe to asume that you will only get this warning if the Overspeed warning lights up in FS (at the bottom left corner, unless of course you have these messages disabled as I do). Sometimes it might happen if there is a sudden change in Wx (due to a Wx update for example) and briefly the speed exceeds the hardcoded structural limit of the a/c.

[OAL714 Jean-Louis Leborne]

Hello all,

[...] There is a complex financial model in OAV that is not visible at this moment, therefore money gained are used to purchase a/c, repair them, clean them, cater them, fuel them, etc. We are in the process of making all these more visible to the pilots. Keep also in mind that the final financial report in the Dispatch Office is recalculated when the qc of each flight is performed by the Ops Manager, showing the correct figures.

Glad to know about that !

Last question related to all the Concorde flights : the ticket income is really low ! 73 PAX makes a ticket income of 7500 EUR that makes an average close to 100 EUR/ticket. Why is the OAV Concorde ticket that cheap ? In the RW the tatest AF return ticket cost was 8100 EUR (LFPG-KJFK-LFPG). It makes me think the ticket income is underestimated for Concorde. What about the other aircrafts of the OAV fleet ?

Thanks

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

Last question related to all the Concorde flights : the ticket income is really low ! 73 PAX makes a ticket income of 7500 EUR that makes an average close to 100 EUR/ticket. Why is the OAV Concorde ticket that cheap ? In the RW the tatest AF return ticket cost was 8100 EUR (LFPG-KJFK-LFPG). It makes me think the ticket income is underestimated for Concorde. What about the other aircrafts of the OAV fleet ?

Wow, I was not aware of the real world price. I will make changes so that it reflects this number. Thanks for the info!

[OAL714 Jean-Louis Leborne]

http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-societ ... 0/0/419437

"Le prix du billet Concorde était-il plus élevé que celui de la 1ère classe d’un autre appareil ?
8.100 € était le dernier tarif A/R New-York en Concorde proposé par Air France au départ de Paris, mais aussi de n'importe quelle autre ville Européenne. Un A/R en 1ère classe en Boeing 777 ou en Airbus A340 était vendu le même prix que celui en Concorde. Il était toutefois possible de payer un peu moins cher en supersonique - 6.660 € - à condition d'acquitter le billet 4 jours avant le départ. Ces deux tarifs devaient inciter les passagers à prendre aussi Concorde lors du retour de New York. Pour marquer le retour en service régulier de Concorde entre New-York et Londres, British Airways avait annoncé un tarif spécial à 5.000 € pour les voyages A/R comprenant au moins un samedi à New York."

english translation :

Was the Concorde ticket higher than 1st class with other airliners ?

8,100 € was the last Concorde round trip ticket to New York proposed by Air France from Paris, but also from any other European city. A 1st-class round-trip with Boeing 777 or Airbus A340 was sold the same price as the Concorde. However, it was possible to pay a little cheaper - 6,660 € - provided you pay the ticket 4 days before departure. Both tariffs should encourage passengers to take Concorde when returning from New-York. To mark the Concorde return to regular service between New-York and London, British Airways announced a special rate of € 5,000 for a round trip including at least one Saturday in New York.

[OAL714 Jean-Louis Leborne]

Hello all,

Quoting Mike [...] Wow, I was not aware of the real world price. I will make changes so that it reflects this number. Thanks for the info!

My latest ticket incomes :
VTSP-HDAM 3262 Nn 10 PAX ticket income 1200 = 120/PAX
ZSPD-VTSP 1907 Nm 83 PAX ticketincome 6640 = 80/PAX

I wish I could have bought a Concorde ticket at such a low price !!

Please have in mind that 8,100 € was the last Concorde round trip ticket to New York proposed by Air France from Paris, but also from any other European city. It makes approx : 8100 €/(2*3300 Nm) = 1.23 €/Nm/PAX

in other words :

VTSP-HDAM ticket income should be 3262*1.23*10 = 40.122
ZSPD-VTSP ticket income should be 1907*1.23*83 = 194.685

which makes a huge difference for the company balance sheet !

Would you please Mike make the expected correction so that the OAV Concorde ticket will be based on current 1st class ticket of any commercial airliners

Merci beaucoup

[OAL269 Kyprianos Biris]

Mike & Jean

I just saw this post.
I can happily change the FSA ticket prices if I have some guidelines for reference.

I post here an indicative list picked in random with n.mileage and their FSA tickets for each flight of OAV Supersonic.
OAV flight nr. | DEP | DEST| nm dist | FSA ticket
OAL1001 EGLL KJFK 3166 350v$
OAL1003 EGLL CYYZ 3263 360v$
OAL1005 EGLL KIAD 3341 360v$
OAL1007 EGLL TBPB 3659 400v$
OAL1009 EGLL LGAV 1356 190v$
OAL1019 EGLL LPMA 1387 190v$
OAL1042 EGLL GCLP 1761 220v$
OAL1149 EGLL BIKF 1268 200v$
OAL1143 LFPG KJFK 3328 470v$
OAL1145 LFPG GOOY 2415 310v$
OAL1152 LFPG BIKF 1435 200v$

Jan feel free to recommend prices (because I have no guidelines or a formula!) and provided Mike approves I will amend these and the rest based on a rough v$/nm ratio derived from above example.

[OAL714 Jean-Louis Leborne]

Concerning the OAV Concorde ticket income : an A-F 1st class round-trip ticket is now 12014€ (just ckecked today). From London the 1st class round-trip ticket is 10492€.

The total distance is 6600 Nm, which makes an average of 1,82€/Nm/PAX

with PAX = 100, the OAV total revenue for one-way tickets from Paris to Kennedy should be close to : 1,82*3300 *100 = 600.600€

For your info, the OAV ticket income for my flight VTSP-HDAM 3262 Nm (10 PAX) was 1200€, it should have been close to 1.82*3262*10 = 59400€

May I suggest to use the following formula for Concorde Ticket : 1.80€ or 1.75€ /NM/PAX

PS I'm not talking about the FSA ticket income ! This is not the point. My concern is the OAV ticket income that is really far to low !!

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

Working on it..

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

The ticket prices have been adjusted. Check for your new flights and let me know. Please note that the price is only calculated when the flight is quality checked or (for admins) recalculated everytime QC is selected and the submit button pressed. All prices in the DO are in USD therefore if you check Kyp's flight from LFPG to KJFK and back the ticket price for one way is ~ USD 7,500.00 which is almost ~ EUR 5,500.00 (i.e. half price of a first class round ticket?). The ticket price is increased slightly for every additional 500nm of distance and of course a lot of additional factors are taken into account.

LFPG-KJFK.JPG

KJFK-LFPG.JPG

In addition to that note that now correct ticket prices will be calculated regardless of the callsign of the schedule. This obviously applies to flights from now onwards (unless a brave soul would like to re-submit all QC flights to date).

Let me know if you feel any further adjustment is required or if you notice anything unusual.

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

btw, J-L, any idea regarding cargo prices?

[OAL269 Kyprianos Biris]

May I suggest to use the following formula for Concorde Ticket : 1.80€ or 1.75€ /NM/PAX

PS I'm not talking about the FSA ticket income ! This is not the point. My concern is the OAV ticket income that is really far to low !!

Shall I use this formula for adjusting FSA CONC flight prices as well with an average passenger loading factor (say 80 pax per flight) ?
FSA has "Ticket Price" only not price/mm/pax.

[OAL109 Mike Ionas]

I think that in FSA the more you increase the ticket price the less passengers you get..